His Excellency, the Vice President of India, Shri M Venkaiah Naiduji, Dr VK Saraswat, member of the NITI Aayog, someone who has contributed to the nation’s technological journey for several decades, Shri Ashvani Lohaniji, my colleague in the Railway Ministry and someone known to be a doer and very effective implementer of fast-track major projects, Shri Keshav Chandra who has served the Indian Railways for several years, finally as member of the railway board, other distinguished guests on the dais, off the dais, ladies and gentlemen.

I was very delighted when I first heard about this Conference on technological advancements in the Railways and Metro System. More so, because this government led by Prime Minister Shri Modi, has been extremely focused on driving growth through innovation, through technology and leveraging on development, on innovation to get outcomes which serve the people of India.

In fact, Steve Jobs had once said, ‘Innovation is the only key to success.’ If at all a nation is recognized in the comity of nations, it is by the level of new ideas that that nation throws up, it is by the level of research that is done in that nation. And if one was to look at our history, also of the Indian railways, and I say this with a little bit of sadness that the last major good train that was introduced in the Indian Railways with whatever additional speed and comfort and safety features was in 1969, when the Rajdhani was introduced. I am told many people even criticized the Rajdhani’s introduction at that point of time. And from 1969 to 2017, we have not embarked on any major new technological initiative that will take us to international standards of passenger safety, comfort, convenience, speed in the last nearly 50 years.

The metro did certainly bring a relief to suburban consumers, with its agility, with its speed, with its comfort. I personally am a big fan of the metro, I use it every time I have to come from the airport or go to the airport in Delhi, or to some far off programme in Faridabad or distinct suburbs of Delhi. And for that the nation will ever be grateful to his Excellency Shri Venkaiah Naiduji, for having fast-tracked the roll out of metros across the country. I believe there are 35-40 projects in the pipeline, which will truly transform the way suburban rail travel or suburban transportation happens. But, such initiatives in the Indian Railways now need a greater thrust and I am sure all these 10 sessions that are going to be held during the course of this Conference will educate us, will help us in our own plans, in our own vision, in taking forward the commitment that we have made to the people of India to make Indian rail safe, to make Indian rail, to make Indian rail secure, to improve the levels of passenger amenities, bring in comfort levels, punctuality and efficiency.

In fact, if I can quote sir from your speech in the Indian Institute of Science in Bengaluru, just recently on the 27^th of September, Venkaiah Garu said, “Innovation plays a key role in driving the knowledge-based economy.” How true are these words?

Today, if one was to assess the success of large parts of the developed world, we could look at the United States; we could look at Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, many parts of Europe. If you look at Japan, what has distinguished them, and what has been the driver of their growth? It has been research, it has been innovation, it has been new ideas, it’s been that ecosystem, which encouraged scientists, which encouraged researchers to think out of the box – which encouraged scientists to fail. Because, after all, unless you try and unless you fail. Hopefully everybody doesn’t fail, we hit it right many times, first time right also.

But I think the sheer ability and the confidence to fail in your research, but persevere, nevertheless, is truly what defines a good ecosystem, which encourages research, which encourages people to go beyond the boundaries of conventional thinking. And I do hope that the steps taken in the last two or three years and our plans in the future will help create that ecosystem, will help encourage the scientists of India not to go to NASA and bring technologies to the United States, but to serve India, work in India and help India become the nerve centre of new technologies of innovation in the world, going forward.

I remember when I was a new Minister and since we are at the Manekshaw Centre, I am reminded of it more particularly, though I have said it on some other occasions. Venkaiah Garu, it was at the Manekshaw Centre, you have a larger hall here? There is another larger hall. So, it was in that hall, not in this hall. There I was addressing possibly the NTPC Annual Day or one of the programmes like that, when I was asked a question about my budget for research and development. And I said, I have no budget for research and development, and I did not mean… and most of the audience was stunned. But I think they lost the point, I was not saying that there is no budget. Every organization in government, Institutes of Science, IITs, all our PSUs, we have a budget for R&D.

Personally, I believe a budget is a limitation, a budget actually holds you back and then you have allocations of budget which can never allow a scientist or a researcher to really flourish the way he wants to, and personally, I believe there cannot be a budget to a scientific project, there cannot be a budget, which restricts innovation.

Prime Minister Modi very often tells us, and honourable Vice President would have, on many occasions, had the opportunity to, as have I to hear this from him, that really India’s time has come to lead the world. We don’t have to always follow what the other countries do, it’s time we led the world. And I am delighted that today, there are many areas where we are leading world initiatives, be it climate change, our effort to introduce renewable energy is bearing fruit. You might have read that only yesterday morning at 4 o’clock, an auction, wind auction, which started day before yesterday, ended at 4 o’clock yesterday morning, and wind power prices have become less than 50% of what they were 3 years ago.

Solar prices are down to one-third of what was being paid just a few years ago. The honourable Prime Minister recently spoke about the youth success we have had in our LED programme, a programme where India has truly led the world, with prices reducing by almost 85-90%, and the roll out of LED lighting in the country being the largest roll out of a programme ever embarked anywhere in the world, nearly 700 million LED bulbs sold, without any government subsidy in the first two years.

Dr Saraswat was just speaking about speed, skill and safety. We are embarking in the railways on a massive programme to ensure safety of the entire network and there is no limitation of budget. The first thing I had to do was to get the mindset that there is no limitation of funds as much money as is required is available. I am not even saving ‘will be made available’ – ‘is available,’ for safety.  But I cannot make it safe unless you come up with good ideas, with new ideas. I have been looking for a night vision to improve the night vision, particularly in foggy weather. We have been looking for lighting of railway coaches and locomotives with night fog vision equipment. We are looking how to make the signalling system better. We are trying to see how can we lay tracks faster, more efficiently. How can we predict track failure or fracture?

All of these things are things, which over the last many years, have been in our knowledge. We are very much aware of it, many cases innovation or technological advancements have happened, albeit in small measures. But I do believe the time has come for us to aggressively go in for newer technologies, better ways of doing work. We will have to all of us work collectively, in which the space department is helping us, ISRO is helping us to good measure. The DRDO and RDSO can work in combination with each other to see what can be done, faster, smarter.

And I would appeal to all of you in this technological advancements in railways and metros Conference to come up with ideas, which we in the railways are very happy to wherever necessary experiment, wherever possible implement, and let us collectively make this effort, fast-track this effort, to really make our passenger experience a delightful experience, a satisfactory experience.

There are lot of futuristic ideas Mr Lohani and his team are working on, we would love to engage with experts with different areas, where we can look at making environment better, making stations and passenger conveniences better. We would love to see how we can make footbridges, for example, faster, and more secure, an area which is really we are seized of as we speak. Train collision is an area, which we are really concerned about, which we would love to make faster. Can we design better locomotives, better coaches, can we design better evacuation methodologies for garbage. There are area upon area where there is possibility of doing something better and I would appeal to all of you to be a part of this revolution that the country is going through, that the railways is engaged in.

I am delighted that our colleagues who have, even though they have retired from different services, be it the military engineering services, be it the railways are all equally passionate about serving this county. That is the beauty of our team in India and I compliment all of you for your passion, for your perseverance, for your commitment to serve this country. And let us all work together in this spirit of cooperation, in this spirit of oneness, in this spirit of public service, to truly invigorate in the Indian railways a better and brighter future for the people of India.

My best wishes to this Conference, and I am really very-very grateful that honourable Vice President has given his time. We will be very-very enlightened by his views. He is a leader who has led from the front. He is a leader who has from his early days, coming from a farmer’s family served the nation through a long career in student life, in public life, in political life. Somebody who has always been extremely passionate in his work for the people of India, in his work to ensure that every poor person in this country, every farmer in this country, has a better quality of life, has a better future to look up to, every child in this country, who aspires for a bright future, in terms of good education, in terms of good skills, in terms of good working opportunities.

Honourable Vice President has been one leader who has served this nation relentlessly for over 45 years and I am sure our Conference will be blessed, both by his presence and by his wisdom.

Thank very much Honourable Vice President for being with us, thank you very much ladies and gentlemen.

 

… that it’s great, because that as you know I have always enjoyed getting feedback, which helps us improve our work and our effort. But if it is motivated, if it is singularly intended to disrupt the positive environment, then I think that will be pretty much unfortunate for the country, because somehow in this day and age of 24 hours television, breaking news and all, it’s very easy to sensationalize without really bothering about the outcomes and no often than not my own experiences. Very trivial issues sometimes are sensationalized beyond they really deserve to, and very often falsehoods are sensationalized with not even an apology.

I will share a small example. Once one of the pink papers wrote that I have a shareholding of some 20 or 30 crores in a company, which had recently had an IPO. Now the least I would expect a pink paper, which is basically running economic news is to verify its facts, and a Piyush Goyal name can be verified very easily. Our data is on the website every year as Ministers. And, if at all, they should have otherwise written that I am falsifying my data on the…that I am submitting to the honorable Prime Minister.

But, it’s very easy to write that Piyush Goyal owns 30 crores worth of shares, there must be 500 Piyush Goyals in this country, right? So, this kind of sensationalism that is sought to be created, and I am saying this with full responsibility, often motivated should change to a more positive mindset where what is wrong you criticize and you take us to the cleaners on that and what is good for the country, be willing to even say that that is good for the country.

That is one part, and the second part is the change that should….we always talk about ‘be the change you want to see in the world, make a difference to society – Malvika spoke about it yesterday – I think the more all of us get involved. I was in a programme this morning where a gentleman came up to me, said I have retired from the defence military engineering services. I said great, I need help to make foot bridges wherever there is large amount of passengers on trains in military precision and military speed, can you help me? He said, I would love to help you.

Now, that’s the kind of enthusiasm you find in a large section of India. We are trying to channelize – I have already set up a meeting to meet him and see how he can help me in my work – we need to channelize our own energies to get more involved in this changing dynamic that the country is going through. I have often said that we also have to become whistleblowers, so if we see somebody doing wrong, we have got to talk about it. If in our industry, she is in the textile trade, somebody is evading taxes, we should let the authorities know so that we can have a level playing field, honest business prevails.

Rather than just cribbing, crying, cursing the system and hoping it is somebody else’s responsibility to stop that, I think if we all decide we will never pay a bribe, we will not encourage or allow anybody to cheat on taxes, this country can be just completely a new story by 2022.

Q: I don’t want to digress and make this a political issue, but since you spoke quite significantly in your opening comments about motivated sensationalism. Are you talking about comments that have been made about the state of the economy?

A: No, no, no, I am talking about general stuff. There are so many things that come up which are irrelevant very often, sensationalized and by the next day it’s not even there anywhere. And, nowadays, with these online media houses, social media is still a different thing, online media houses – you have a number of them who will write anything and get away with it, because they don’t even have to substantiate anything.

Q: So, do you believe like Harish Salve does that social media needs to be regulated in India?

A: I don’t think you need to regulate social media. I think, collectively, we as the citizens of India need to give a befitting reply to such motivated people.

Q: Let me start by asking you Minister Goyal, because you spoke about a need for a mindset change, as well as linking that to outcome. If I could ask you about whether we could change this L1 mindset that we live with in this country, and I will link that to corporate boards, because yesterday we have had the Uday Kotak Committee on corporate governance bring out its report saying that people who are qualified to be on corporate boards have the domain expertise of that particular industry, etc. should be the ones who represent corporate boards. But this mindset that it has to be the lowest bidder irrespective of whether they have the expertise, they have the competency, they have the skill, I mean is it not time that we look for reimagining this template, reinventing this template for a better India?

A: Well, first of all, since you alluded to Uday’s report, let me also tell you that I think he has gone completely off the mark here.

Q: He is gone off the mark, why?

A: That’s right, and I will explain why. I became the Power Minister of this country, I didn’t know the ‘P’ of power or the ‘C’ of coal, and renewable energy was the farthest thing from my mind when I became a Minister. IAS officers all over the country, many of them have done illustrious jobs. I don’t think they have some domain expertise. Sreedharan didn’t know what a metro looks like when he became the Metro Man of India.

I mean, I don’t think, very often I tell people when they come to me and they say that, you know, this company doesn’t have experience in manufacturing pipes, for example, we can’t buy from them. I said, there is a process to determine if the pipes that they manufacture are good or bad – you do tensile testing, there are all sorts of testing available. But if everybody takes that mindset, he will never be able to get into business, so Make in India or Entrepreneurship and Startup India can be history from tomorrow.

To my mind, you have to encourage diversity of opinion, diversity of experience. So if I am running a steel unit and I have run a steel unit – forgings, I didn’t know a damn all of that, I am a chartered accountant. So, businessmen are supposed to keep their accounts honest and correct, businessmen are, maybe if it’s an engineer, doesn’t know what – Dirubhai Ambani probably never went beyond a certain basic level of education.

So, I think this is a completely wrong thinking. Just education doesn’t make a man any great, any expert in the field, and the most educated people run some of the biggest frauds that have happened in this country.

Q: So, is that the only reason why you believe that he is gone off the mark or do you think other recommendations as well?

A: No, no, since you raised that, I have not even gone into all the details. There are many things good, many things which I think are inappropriate. There is a good idea that a woman director should be compulsory – great idea.

Q: And an independent director?

A: That’s also a good idea, but since you are raising the point I can labour whatever little I have read on the television screen. He also spoke about the boards themselves should decide the independent directors. Now, frankly, this is what is already happening. There is nothing new in that. But that is where the problem is. When I run my board, I choose people who are going to be yes men, who are going to listen to me or going to go by what I say, and that’s going to be my board. But that’s the whole problem, the base problem is that only.

So, what he is recommending is that I get to choose who will be on my board, who are convenient for me to be on the board. So, anyway, we are not discussing Uday’s report, I will talk to him tomorrow maybe about it.

But, Uday has been like a mentor for me for 25-30 years, I love him. And therefore, I can take the liberty and he takes the same liberty with me. When I go wrong, I know that Uday is there to tell me you are doing something wrong here. So, I just said it because these were 2 or 3 things that I just picked up on the screen yesterday.

Q: Let me go back again to the mindset change that we were talking about Mr Goyal, and how we can actually insist within government that the policies are (inaudible)?

A: See L1 is something again which is not easy to do away with, and for good and bad reasons. When you point out L1 is not good, you are talking of quality of service. Let’s say if I want to take an architect, I certainly can’t take it on an L1 basis. You know, when a PSU is disinvested and merchant bankers bid for it, and there may be some merchant bankers in this room, every time they bid zero. Are you aware of that? Why do they do that?

Because of two reasons, they make money on the side because of the investments that flow in from them and they get some carry on the money that’s invested, you know that very well. And the second is they want to up their league ranking, correct? Now, in that case, it’s certainly we cannot do anything, everybody is zero.

I had, in fact, suggested (inaudible) Secretary, which I usually do, like in the coal mines. And now, you start asking them how much money you will pay us to be the merchant banker of a disinvestment to the government. But, the bigger point is that, look, we also want probity and honesty in government. Beyond a stage, if we start messing up with L1, we are also going to land up with scandals and excuses of quality always becoming a cause for scandal.

Therefore, there are established processes. You can create committees. You can create technical specifications which are robust and protect you from the riff raff. You can have 70% of the marks for technical, 30% for financial bids. There are ways in which you can reasonably protect. I personally am of the opinion you should have a technical spec which is strict, remove the chaff from the grain, and then allow them to bid on a financial parameter. Many people use the 70-30 or 50-50 principle, I personally believe it leads to more objectivity, and that people can manipulate transactions. I have so far avoided doing that.

A: I will give you a simple thing. If I invest 150,000 crores, and if even 20% of that is labour costs, which I am being very conservative by Indian standards. It’s 30,000 crores. 30,000 crores the railways people don’t do that investment, it’s all done through contracted and outsourced stuff. So that 20% is 30,000 crores, 3 lakh rupees per person at an average, some may be less some may be more, is a million jobs. And I am spending that every year.

By the way, I want to give you, why I said Janbhagidaari or people’s involvement and why it should be a collective effort. Mam spoke about tourism which he alluded to.

In the railways, what am I doing? We have 276 saloons, including a saloon which I can use to go anywhere in the railway, right? It’s a beautiful, luxurious saloon, you may love to go on that some day. But we are not planning to use those saloons. We are making sure that henceforth you will have to pay. Right now, I can only give it to you as a favour.

But what we are doing is, we are keeping those which are essential for any unfortunate accident or repair work or inspection work with the divisional managers, moving probably a 150-170 of them out of the divisions, creating luxury trains out of that. And I will tell you the thinking, I will have a train go from Delhi on the Buddha Circuit – Sarnath, Kushinagar, Gaya. And I will tell you why I am doing it, because in those places we don’t have very good hotel facilities, stay facilities. But, these trains have beautiful staying facilities. So, a Japanese can come in that train, stay in the night in that coach, good toilets, good everything. In the day, pay his respects at the Buddha tourist spot, again come back in the night go to the next place. So, his hotels, his stay, his toilet, everything is well taken care of. I will probably add one or two Japanese translators or whatever country’s – Chinese translators. And there, lo and behold, without doing anything else you have created infrastructure.

A: You know Shirine, when Prime Minister spoke from the Red Fort on 15^th August, 2014, his first address, my daughter was sitting on the ground below the Red Fort. She was I think that time all of 16 or 17, and that dialogue of the Prime Minister, that statement had a profound impact on her when he had said on that day that we are all the time telling our girls how to behave, how to look at boys or how to take care of themselves, why don’t we teach our boys how they have to behave, how they have to look at the other sex, what is proper, what is improper.

And I was remembering that in our time in school, we used to have moral science classes, and I think it’s not there in schools anymore. But if we were to try and introduce it, I don’t know your channel, but many would be first off the block trying to tell us ‘you are trying to force education or force a certain culture or force Indian tradition and heritage on the children. And, therefore, this whole political discourse in the country has become one where every good step also, which is in the interests of the people of India is looked at with a jaundiced or a coloured eye and then sought to be converted into a issue which more often than not has no relevance, nothing communal about it, nothing really political about it. But then if we try to teach moral science, you are trying to teach Hindutva, you are trying to teach Gita or whatever will come in and you will be back to square one.

Q: Well, I don’t think telling somebody that they need to respect a woman or respect the differently-abled has to necessarily be linked to a particular religion or to a particular text.

A: How I wish you have a skill development course on that for all the media also.

Q: I can’t speak for anything beyond my own organization.

A: Just last point, when the Prime Minister in that same 15^th August, 2014 speech, announced that within a year, we will create a toilet for boys and girls separately in every government school in the country. That was one time where probably L1          may not have been so strictly possible, because you had one year to do 430,000 schools across the country, toilets in 430,000 schools, a lot of private sector companies came forward also. But that’s where the government showed its true mettle in a way. The companies which were under Power, Coal and Renewable Energy at that time did 121,000 toilets, about 1/3^rd of them were done by just PSUs under that Ministry.

Now after that I realized what Ajay is saying. I realized that if we had instead of doing that, we had partnered with the private sector and we could have done a far better job in terms of quality. We could have maintained it far better, about which I saw problems later on. So, now about a month ago, I had meetings with Tata Charities, Piramal’s Charities, a lot companies in Delhi…… lot of people came. Then last week, another 3-4 more charities came forward. I am trying to see how we can leverage the same PPP model to get NGOs in the private sector and government spending leverage each other. There is a huge amount of money we give out through our various programmes – be it Beti Bachao, Beti Padhao, be it our maternity programmes, be it our programmes for education. There is huge amount of money spent, forget CSR, in the normal course of social welfare schemes.

So, if the NGOs, and I find some really well-meaning people there, government schemes and our own CSR, if we can dovetail that, I think we can get a big bang for every buck that we spend. We can leverage and multiply manifold and also stop duplication. Out of 8 or 9 trusts, 6 or 7 spoke about health, 5 spoke about education. So, we are all working in silos, if we can dovetail all that, it can have a transformational impact.

Q: Yes, because skill matters. But, specifically, on the need for public-private partnership to create social infrastructure if I could broadly call it that, whether it’s healthcare or education. And these have been experiments at various state governments have undertaken with the private sector where you use the government infrastructure, but get the private sector to actually run a school or run a hospital. The NITI Aayog, in fact, in its recent proposal has suggested a PPP model where you use government infrastructure, but it’s actually given out to a private sector player. Do you believe that that is the idea for the future when we talk about improving the service at the last mile, do you think that that is going to be an idea that will be given currency by this government?

A: There is no one-size-fits-all in these things. You have to be open to ideas across the board. I will tell you a small thing. We wanted to start station development. Companies were not coming forward, they wanted to see if this experiment works. So, in Gandhinagar, the government gave out an EPC contract, then the station is being developed, a hotel will come up and the tendering has been done and a good company has got the tender to manage that hotel when it comes out. We have done it already so that the furnishing can be to their taste.

It will be a beautiful station, and a hotel on top. Hotel given out on management contract, like Hyatt and everybody takes, they take 3.5% that’s the tender price on which it went. Same formulae, technical specs 5 people or whatever were shortlisted, and then in the financial bid this company won. And, once we have 3 or 4 such cases, then the general public will start taking interest. If EESL hadn’t done the huge LED roll-out, the private sector would never have reduced their prices by 90%. So, I think every project has its own best method.

Question & Answer (Audience)

Q: This question goes out to anyone on the panel. I am Ratul Puri from Hindustan Power. Minister Goyal yesterday talked about trust, and said trust is a critical factor. And I believe one of the key elements in restarting the investment cycle, creating jobs, doing all the good things that India needs to do is to enhance trust that is there amongst all key stakeholders, the media, industry, government. How do we re-establish this element of trust, some element of trust that may have been lost, how do we go forward and enhance it and build upon it?

A: I think, for example, the Finance Minister had mentioned that if people start paying their taxes and we get more tax revenue, we can reduce the tax rates. If more and more people start self-policing, so let’s say she is in a textile business. There are 10 companies, if she knows that there is one company which is cheating or two which are cheating, if she lets us know about it and we can stop that, then it will encourage everybody to start being honest. But if she allows that to continue and god forbid that comes to the attention of the government. Then what happens is one wrong step leads to everything becoming suspect.

So, I think the trust is something where everybody will have to put their foot forward. We in government will have to be more trusting of people that they are paying their taxes honestly. The industry or tax payers will have to be more honest in terms of declaring their business and their accounts more honestly. And as I said, the media will have to be more trusting in terms of actually seeing, is there a mala fide or a bona fide.

For example, we want to amend the Prevention of Corruption Act. The Prevention of Corruption Act today castigates you, irrespective of whether you did it with the best of bona fides, though it went wrong or you had some mala fide ….We are trying to amend it that only where you can prove mala fide you should be taken to the cleaners, but bona fide decisions can go wrong.

Similarly, in banking, after all, there are entrepreneurs with the best of interests they started a business, somebody can go wrong in business that’s why they are entrepreneurs in the first place. There is a risk associated with business. Now, if the world is going to look at every entrepreneur with a jaundiced eye that he’s cheated the bank, or he is, save and except a few willful defaulters, but otherwise if the world starts recognizing that failure is a integral part of success or business, I think it will change, it will bring back the mojo into the business, into industry.

A: Shirine I can appeal to all the people in this room, just so many people if they apply their mind, what government can do, what people can do, what industry can do, what bankers can do, what media can do to get back trust in the system, if everybody puts a one pager on it, and maybe WEF or somebody can compile it and come out with a small note on that, I promise you the government is open to listening to it.

Q: I am Sugandha Munsha, I belong to Patna, Bihar. I am representing Global Shaper here. So, my question has two parts. It’s a question-cum-understanding I need to develop from the whole forum. We have launched Beti Bachao, Beti Padhao that is doing very fantastic job in making people be the change you want to see in the world. Now, do you think it’s the time to also launch a campaign equally – Bete Padhao, and Beti Padhao? That’s kind of a campaign which also talks about men’s socialization. The second aspect is about the women workforce. Agriculture is one of the greatest sector in India, but when I see, I work with women farmer. They are invisible. Their contribution is not being recognized. How do you think we can work together to make this challenge and bring a solution to this?

A: That’s very much possible ma’m. Again, I come back to those trusts who came and presented to me. Many of them are doing wonderful work when it comes to farmers. I will give you a simple example, Devendra Fadnavis, Maharashtra’s Chief Minister, along with the Tata trusts is running a programme on Jalyukt Shivar, where they are creating small water bodies in remote areas in the state of Maharashtra, so that even if there is rain only for two days, the farmer is assured for the rest of the year he won’t have a water shortage.

Now, the Tatas, Amit Chandra, many of us know him, Amit came up with a desilting programme. It’s a brilliant programme. These water bodies often have silt accumulated over the years that silt is like gold. If you desilt these ponds, not only are you expanding the water capacity, but that silt when it goes into the farms, it’s magnifying their productivity twice and thrice over. So, their incomes are increasing, now farmers are willing to pay money to take that silt. So, it’s becoming a self-financing programme. You desilt, recover the money from selling that silt. You add to the water body over there, carrying capacity.

So, there are a lot of things that can be done, which can truly impact farmers. And, it’s again people like us, people like us who understand who have seen how Israel, for example, has three times our productivity who know better ways to use fertilizer, for example, rather than just putting in more and more urea into the land, who can help educate farmers with soil health cards, drip irrigation. What’s the best product to make depending on market forces?

I am trying to see if I can bring if I can bring cold storage, let’s say in Nasik, all trains coming out of Nasik having cold storage in the onion season, and all trains going out of Himachal having a cold storage in the apple season. So, it’s a role where we can all contribute both with ideas and many of us with implementation.

Q: Hello, my name is Raikar, I am a global Shaper. One basic query I have sir, there is a lot of gap in communication between the government and the public. Now, a government is doing a lot of things. There is a lot of gap in the communication, but the people in such forums everybody is talking so many things we want to do a lot of stuff. But people are wondering on the ground that what’s happening, they have no clue what’s happening. So, this gap in the communication is a really big problem. I really want to know what are your views on how to bridge this?

A: I can make a suggestion gentleman. You have a number of these youngsters involved with the WEF, right? I am willing to have five of you, seven of you, ten of you, spend a year in my office, help us create a communication strategy and actually implement it. Let it be a two-way traffic to convey what we believe we are doing is right and to hear the people’s voice and help us, maybe moderate what we are doing or modulate it and do it better. So, if anybody, youngsters who want to contribute, write into me. My mail ID is simple – PiyushGoyalBJP@gmail.com.

Panelist: Alright, Piyush Goyal, Deepali Goenka, Malvika, Ajay Banga, many thanks for joining us. Let me invite Chandrajeet Banerjee please say a few words before we wrap up.

……forum once more to India, to engage with Indian business, Indian government and I have always valued this platform a lot, because it does give us a two-way flavour, gives us a chance to talk about what we plan to do and also to hear some voices, and understand what’s happening around the globe.

The morning session was certainly very-very interesting. In that, different voices – business, social sector; we also had a person who is a very eminent personality from Bollywood, all talking about the strengths of India in terms of its resilience, in terms of the change in attitude as dear Malvika said, in terms of the confidence that Indian business has in the future of India and its growth story.

Certainly, when you make very transformational changes, there will be some turbulence along the way; there will be some readjustments along the way. And, that transitional period throws up its own challenges, but also its own opportunities. So, we look at this transition period as providing a huge opportunity to all of India, particularly, Indian business to move into a more formal economy, to change the mindset of doing business that has prevailed for decades in this country. And the best part of it is that the youth of India is engaging very beautifully when it comes to this changing mindset, to this changing approach to the future of India.

The youth does not want the stereotypes of the past. The youth does not want an economy where the formal and the informal co-exist. The youth certainly doesn’t like corruption. They want an honest economy, an economy that is caring, that really wants to do good for society. And, the good part about India is that when we talk about doing good, particularly, good for the lesser privileged, we don’t talk about only India, we talk about the world.

The very basic DNA of Indian culture and tradition has been that the world is one family, and when we care for our fellow human being, it’s not necessarily a fellow Indian, it’s a fellow human being from across the world. I will just give you a couple of small thoughts to ponder over why I say this. Look at the UN peacekeeping forces. If you put all the peacekeeping forces that have been mobilized in the last 60-70 years, you will find the Indian contribution to US peacekeeping forces has been the highest.

The International Solar Alliance – India has gained hugely from our thrust towards renewable energy, and we care for the environment. We are really a concerned nation as should every responsible global citizen about climate change. But when we care for it, we also care for other countries who should benefit from that. So, we launched the International Solar Alliance along with France. We already have 40 countries signed up, 11 have ratified. By the end of the year, we will have a multi-lateral international agency providing a platform to encourage renewable energy across the world, particularly, in countries like Africa and Asia, which are going to find it difficult to be able to get the benefits of modern technology, financing.

So, our engagement, be it to counter terrorism, be to counter climate change, be it for the basic welfare of fellow human beings, is global. And I do believe that has been the Indian ethos, and that’s been something Prime Minister Modi and his government has passionately worked towards in the last 3-3.5 years. Thereby, I think in some sense, creating a lot of acceptability for India across the world.

Q: Minister, I want to come back to you with one of the points that Malvika mentioned, and I could imagine that it’s also on your agenda – investment and R&D. Give us a brief insight into what we can expect from India in that area?

A: You know, at the outset, I must compliment Malvika that you are really brilliant. You make all of us proud. And I truly pray and wish for the best for you and all the young boys and girls of the country. I think you are the ones who are going to really give us strength to be able to do so much more. All the very best.

And, I am, in fact, even more proud that you spoke about R&D. It’s something, which is so important. It’s actually something, which will define the future of India. In this day and age of innovation, in this day and age where the whole world is changing, I think it’s new thoughts, new developments, innovation, which is going to determine the fate of mankind and India can’t be left far behind.

I know on more than one occasions, I have been confronted with this question – what is the budget you have for R&D? And, I remember very early on in one of my first few interactions with my team, this question came up, ‘what is your budget for R&D?’ I said, I have no budget.

And everybody was aghast, there was media in the room, everybody was aghast. I said budget is made when there is a limitation. Intrinsically, a budget limits you from spending. For a thing like R&D, there should be no budget, it should be unlimited.

And, I think that is the strength, which some of the developed countries have today. If at all somebody was to ask what differentiates the United States of America or many countries in Europe like Sweden or even Finland, or Switzerland for that matter – the fact that they have innovated, they have produced Nobel Prize winners, the fact that they are encouraging new thoughts, new ideas. And, they celebrate failure. They don’t take failure as a stigma, because unless you fail, unless you make mistakes you are not going to learn and unless you learn you are not going to succeed.

I think it’s that mindset, and as she said that attitude in our thinking that we need to put into every child of India. Today, India can proudly proclaim that we have sent satellites to space, probably, at a lower cost than any other country. Our mission to Mars was at nearly 1/10^th the price of any other satellite going there. India launched 104 satellites at one point of time, simultaneously.

It’s something that makes each one of us proud. But we can’t rest on our laurels. India has the unique ability, I think, with its demographic dividend, with this wonderful youth wanting to engage, wanting to come up with new ideas, to lead the world in the years to come. And, I think we only need to create that enabling environment to empower them. After all, all our young boys and girls go to NASA and do such wonderful work there. Possibly, it’s on us, the responsibility rests on us to create that similar enabling environment that they can flourish and their minds can wander and come up with brilliant ideas in India.

We are trying to look at fiscal benefits. We have looked at some tax breaks on research and development. We are looking at integrating different laboratories, upgrading laboratories in the country. But, yes, we have a long way to go. But, I think today, after Malvika’s talk, it’s a little bit of a wake-up call for me too in my own areas of work to see what more work we can do on innovation.

Q: Thank you very much. I have many-many questions, but we also have the members of the media in the room. So, if I could (Inaudible) who has questions, we have a microphone here.

A: May I add one thing, since.. When we talk of innovation, I have a concern about technologies and patents, which I would love the World Economic Forum to really deliberate upon, possibly even deliberate upon it in Davos as it comes closer.

We have this issue about technologies related to climate change, newer technologies, you have HFC-free air-conditioning, for example. You have newer technologies, which bring efficient renewable energy sources. You will have storage technologies coming up in the future, electric vehicles. All of these are ways by which we can combat climate change.

Sadly, we have confused business and profits with this huge challenge of climate change. I personally am of the view that there have to be certain outcomes on which patents or technologies should be on open access, available on open access for the world to leverage, bring down the cost and make it freely available, because the challenges are near and immediately before us.

I mean, just take an example, if there are terrorists outside this room. Are we first going to be sitting and engaging on technology costs and you are giving arms and ammunition at a certain price, or are we going to fight that challenge immediately. And, climate change is no less a challenge than terrorism. And, with the kind of costs that we are loading on climate change and its mitigation, we are actually making it difficult for many countries to be able to address this challenge.

So, I personally believe we should invest much more in R&D, particularly, on issues around climate change and that investment should be global in nature. It should be investment which gives technology for the world to use. I mean I had a couple of very bad examples, when I tried to talk to some of the best universities of the world. I said I am willing to fund all the research that goes in to make clean coal technologies or manage the carbon in coal, for example. But we were not able to come to terms on the issue of patents. I wanted that whatever comes out of that research, and I am funding that research for you, should be available openly for the whole world, so that it can help us fight this problem of climate change. But, we are not able to get around this mindset of profit and mindset of technology control.

Q: Thank you Minister. That’s also an important message to the scientific community, academic community here, definitely. Let’s see if any of the journalists in the room have found the courage to ask a question. Yes, we have a lady in the first row, could you state your name and the organisation for the sake of our online audience as well.

Q: Hi, good afternoon. I am Priyamada from the Print, my question is to you Piyush sir. Sir, even today, as we have seen, there is a lot of discussion about technology threatening the jobs that we have in India. And, there is a fear that with technology taking over, a lot of jobs will be lost. Sir, on that, do you think we have the capacity and the buffer to actually help out those who will need to move to another skill, adapt to these jobs that are coming in?

A: Technology never causes job losses. Technology provides you new opportunities to provide a better quality of life at more affordable prices. And, as people start saving money, their demands, their requirements keep increasing, so it only opens up new avenues for jobs. It just shifts the job from maybe, let’s take power for example, I used to earlier look after power.

Now, gone are the days where we will have 4 GW or 2 GW large power plants producing electricity, that plant may have actually provided jobs to 5000 people. Instead of that, an equivalent amount of energy will be produced in the new age of renewable energy, distributed energy in maybe a 100 institutions, or 100 organisations. And that will be the technological shift, and that shift will not reduce jobs. It will, in fact, enhance jobs. You will need 10 times the number of people to produce the same amount of clean energy than it would have taken to produce carbon-based energy.

So, I think in every respect, technology will make life more comfortable, more affordable. And as comfort and affordability comes in, there will be requirements for fresh investments in newer and newer areas. Let’s say, you take the bullet train, for example. If you bring in a modern technology, we will make travel safe, we will make travel more comfortable, we will bring jobs in India, we will make newer products in India through the new technology. And, as that happens, a person reaches his destination in lesser amount of time, his productive hours will allow him to create more growth, more value addition for the nation.

So, I think the country’s mindset or attitude has to change towards progress becoming a part of our life, not anti-progress becoming the defining feature of Indian society. So, we can’t have a situation that the last train that was introduced in India was the Rajdhani in 1969 and no new technological innovation after that in 50 years.

We can’t have a situation where we can say that, no, first, like in the west, everybody now has a vehicle, by and large. So, they will have to replace all those vehicles with new electric vehicles as it progresses. India has the opportunity to leapfrog, so that we can start with electric vehicles for 90% of our people who don’t own a vehicle as yet.

On LEDs, we didn’t wait for America or Europe to shift to LEDs, we have led the world in LEDs – literally, LED the world in LEDs. And, now the world wants to clone the Indian example. Indian LEDs are being sold in London, so I think the time has come for India to accept leadership position, to take pole position when it comes to leading the global effort on a variety of things – growth, climate change, terrorism.

Sushma Swaraj, the honourable External Affairs Minister, gave a powerful address, which I think stirred people across the world when she spoke about terrorism in the UN last month. So, India’s own ability to lead the world is now coming to centre stage.

Q: Thank you very much. That is a good closing remark, considering that the time has already progressed. Thank you very much for being here, thank you for watching and a very special warm welcome.

A: Thank you.

A: I am happy that it got raised. When post-demonetization, we were looking at all the digital modes of payment and seeing how we can encourage. That’s when Ajay and his team, and I had a lot of interactions. We actually studied the South Korea Model. But, we learnt a lot from the South Korea model.

And, that’s the advantage of having a government, which has an open mind. We are not necessarily saying that we have to reinvent the wheel on everything. For example, in our tax policy, Finance Minister, Mr Jaitley, brought in this clause that when you have a turnover up to, I think, Rs 2 crore, the amount you transact digitally, the presumptive taxation rates are much lower, significantly lower. Instead of 8%, they take only 6% as profit. Now, we are in our own way trying to encourage digital payments. My sense is that all of these various initiatives, steps will help us move the needle very rapidly.

I will tell you one or two small things. The railways used to charge a service charge, post demonetization they removed that service charge, and we saw the digital transactions really shoot up. Now, the only charge that is charged is a MDR (Merchant Discount Rate). I am actually now engaged with bankers to see what we can do about that MDR also. Ideally, I would like the amount a person has to pay, whether digital or cash, to be the same. And, this talk about the State Bank incurring 3,800…

Q: Not State Bank, it’s a report put out by State Bank because banks….

A: Okay, now I will give you another perspective Shirine, you understand banking. I have been on the board of two banks. I remember in the board, we used to agitate about ATM costs, the costs per transaction on the ATMs. And, now I am talking, and I am becoming older by the day, I am talking at least 10 years ago. 10 years ago, we used to calculate that cost per ATM transaction at about Rs 45, probably, today it would be in the region of Rs 60 or Rs 70, even with technological upgradation, let’s say even Rs 50.

Now, what sense does it have that a person goes to an ATM, withdraws cash and then spends. And the banks are all the time filling in the ATMs with more cash. Go to the next level that everybody has their debit cards, and instead of withdrawing cash has the ability wherever he goes, in a train, in a bus, in a grocery store, in a movie hall buying popcorn, anything, as the ecosystem grows, bankers will be saving tonnes and tonnes of money far more than 3000-2800 or whatever figure this report has attempted to suggest, far more than that if they promote digital transactions.

And with technology, look at the BHIM app. It’s made it so simple to transact digitally that I personally don’t think a transaction will cost positively anything more than half a rupee or a rupee. It could be a $100 million transaction, it would happen for Rs 1, because ultimately the value doesn’t change the nature of the transaction.

A: Let’s understand, I will give you my own personal experience. Once upon a time, it’s very old example that I am sharing with you. And it’s an example which actually will reflect to all of us, the Indian thinking. We are a very conservative society. We are conscious about waste, every rupee we calculate when we are spending. So, if in a particular shop, you get tomatoes at Rs 20 a kilo and another one at Rs 22, the lady of the house is going to be attracted towards that Rs 20 store. It’s not as if those Rs 2 is going to make any difference to Mr Rahul Bajal, but he will certainly as a good conscientious person want to save that Rs 2, I think, which is how they make the billions in their company. That’s intrinsically Indian.

Q: Well, it’s intrinsically business as well.

A: Yeah, now in this situation, I had once gone to somebody’s, somebody had passed away. I was sitting there, and we thought there should be some Bhajans being played. So, I went to buy a small radio, or a VCR in those days, remember there used to be a VCR with those cassettes? I went to buy one of those to play Bhajans, I still remember. A tape recorder or something. Now, the guy said it will cost you a Rs 1000 if you cash and a Rs 1020 if you pay by your card. I had actually taken out my card, because middle of the night you suddenly go, you are not even carrying cash and all that.

Now, I was psyched out. So, I am just trying to reflect to you, card or cash, 20 bucks. And, I actually was very unhappy about it. I still recall, and imagine remembering something which happened 20 years ago today at the WEF, means it must have struck a chord somewhere. Pay 20 bucks more just to pay by card to buy a tape recorder! So, I suspect that if the bankers, it’s largely the bankers who are at the back of the MDR, right? The bankers will have to reorient their business models, they will have to reorient how they are going to make digital transactions free, and use that database to make money out of alternate ways.

Q: So, digital transactions have to be free. That’s very clearly and unequivocally the message that’s coming here from Piyush Goyal.

A: I will give you a simple example. I now have to look after the railway story, so IRCTC passes that Merchant Discount Rate to the consumer. I have been at them that you have to eliminate it, but railways has its own challenges. They need funds and they cannot increase their tariffs very easily. So, in this conundrum I am going to be talking to bankers, look you have the railways account, you have accounts of all my coal companies. You are getting business from me. So, you have to take a call on the business that you are getting, on the cross-sales that you can do. I will allow them to sell insurance policies on my website. I will give them an economic incentive to work with me. And, I hope all the bankers are listening, because this is coming next in the next 2-3 days.

Q: Let me ask you about the issue of regulation, and I remember when Kenneth Rogoff was here in July and we spoke with him about demonetization and the lessons from demonetization. He was very clear that he doesn’t believe in going cashless, but what he did seem to suggest is that you should have regulation to bring down the use of cash. Now, we have seen several recommendations, whether it’s the SIT saying that there should be a cap on withdrawals and so on and so forth. From a idea or a vision as far as regulating the use of cash is concerned, what further can we see?

A: We have no plans to really focus on regulation as much as on persuasion. And my own sense is that is what works well with the people, and will give us faster and better results. I don’t think we need to regulate that, I think what we need to do is only incentivize like we did with the income tax for digital transactions, B2B. Going forward, the government is looking at different ways to encourage people to transact digitally.

For example, one thought I can throw to all of you in the audience, and through you to all the viewers. Can we not, all of us, in whatever work we are doing, insist on a bill? It’s a small thing. But I remember, I used to go to, I love seeing Hindi movies, it’s my stress buster.

Q: Which one have you seen off late?

A: I just saw one half a movie actually, I saw a movie for 40 minutes, that’s the time I had, so I saw it for 40 minutes. But, the important point is, when I used to buy popcorn there, right? And, that’s the fun of seeing a movie in a theatre. Every time I realise that the guy would skim me of a 100 bucks. And, usually, when you are going to an INOX, you don’t count the change. And, probably, it’s fashionable not to count the change, unfortunately, I am little old-fashioned. I generally look at the thing, as I am ordering I know what’s the bill going to be, I check the cash.

So, on three or four occasions I found in Mumbai that I was being fleeced of a 100 bucks. And I would raise the issue and they will say, oh, sorry sorry, galti ho gayi. So, I raised it with the owners. They said we have changed action, blah, blah, again it happened with me. It was unfortunate. Probably, the young person there may have thought this is an easy way to make money. Then they started bringing in, ‘if you don’t get the bill, the purchase is free,’ like you have it at the airports. And, it made a world of difference. I have never had to have that kind of a problem again.

Now, if we as a country insist on a bill for whatever we purchase, and if this message goes down the line, we will move towards a formal economy and then nobody will hesitate to pay by cash.

Q: So, Mr Goyal, you said that more regulation is clearly not on the government’s agenda at this point in time. You would like to use persuasion to get people to move to digital transactions. Let me also then ask you about what the future is as far as high denomination notes are concerned, and there was confusion post demonetization that we brought in an actually, a Rs 2000 note, but the government explained it saying that this is what was needed to tide over the demonetization?

A: A very logical thing. It was stupid if anybody didn’t understand the basic logic of it.

Q: No, we understood the logic of that then, but I am saying now what is the thinking as far as high denomination notes are concerned?

A: I don’t know. That’s something which is well beyond my pay grade. But I am sure not too many people here are….

Q: Okay, let me ask for your point of view personally sir?

A: I don’t think many people here are carrying too many high denomination notes these days, that’s passé. We all use digital means to transact, more and more of the country is using digital means. Now, tell me one thing, this story about high denomination notes, how many occasions are there in any of our lives where we need to pay Rs 5000 or 10,000 or 20,000 to somebody? It’s a very rare thing. This may be in a 5-star hotel like where we are that we may need to pay, settle a bill if, you know, Rahul Bhai has had a big Marvadi thali which is too expensive for somebody else that you may need to pay a large amount of money, right?

Or if Mr Godrej has had some nice delicious prawns maybe, but otherwise, where do we spend large amounts of money in any case? So, there is no need to really have very large amounts of cash or wads of cash any more.

Q: You know, you have pre-empted my question and I was going to ask you that and I will get Ajay to comment on that as well. And while we debate the issue around Aadhar and so on and so forth, I am not getting into the privacy issue as much as I am getting into the data protection issue, and the need for a robust regulatory framework, given the strides that we are making in this space. How conscious is the government of this and how soon can we actually expect meaningful action on this part?

A: Extremely conscious of it. In fact, I think the UIDAI has been very very focused on this, Mr Nandan Nilekani himself has told me that right through the development of the Aadhar framework they have been conscious about this. And it’s not as if, I mean after the Pentagon gets hacked, you can’t just keep picking on the Aadhar.

Q: No, no, the idea is not here to pick on the Aadhar. As I said, I am not getting into that issue at all, but I am saying that there is a need for a robust regulatory framework in the country as we move towards more digitalization.

A: Absolutely, I think that’s an evolutionary process. It keeps evolving. And, as Ajay will I think agree that you can keep adding firewalls and safety features and there will always be somebody who will be one step ahead of you. So, it’s a continuous race, race to the bottom possibly.

Q: Mr Goyal, since we are talking about digitization, let me also bring in the aspect of inclusion now, and whether it’s through Aadhar, it’s through the JAM trinity, the effort on the part of the government is to try and get more of the unbanked within the banking system or at least access to some kind of finance and credit. What next now in that endeavour, what next in that effort?

A: Well, first of all, I must acknowledge the contribution of all the bankers of India. I remember it was at Davos in 2015 when the World Bank President actually asked me to convey to Prime Minister Modi his compliments that in a short span of 4 months, India was able to do something which the World Bank has targeted 2030 as the terminal date. And at that session, he said that, frankly, now we need to rethink even our Sustainable Development Goals that do we need 2030 to really expand to the rest of the world also.

Same thing we are doing on electricity; how can we ensure access to electricity to every Indian citizen in the next 15 or 18 months. We don’t have to wait till 2030, do we need to keep the children of tomorrow deprived for another 10 years?

Similarly, when it comes to financial inclusion, look at the dramatic impact it has had on the way people get government support, affirmative action, the Direct Benefit Transfer. It’s almost saved $10 billion already, and that’s money that goes in for social welfare causes. It’s not as if that money is frittered away giving somebody a coal block, without charging him for it or telecom spectrum without charging money for it. In this government, every rupee gets used to serve the poorest of the poor.

Similarly, look at the fact that Mudra Loans, we have now nearly 90 million Mudra Loans amounting to about $50 billion, more than that, $60 billion now. $60 billion given out to small entrepreneurs making them job creators rather than job seekers, helping them stand up in life, becoming self-reliant.

Look at the way we have been able to connect financial inclusion and MNREGA. MNREGA where all of us knew there was a lot of leakage. Now, we can actually with the JAM trinity identify the person through his Aadhar No., his bank account into which the payment is made directly, all middlemen are out. In fact, post demonetization, one of the set of people who most vociferously opposed were the middlemen or the leaders who used to skim a note out of the payment being made to casual labour, or to labour in the Assam tea gardens. They were very unhappy, because if money is going to directly to the bank, then they lose their commission or their ability to skim money out, he said the illegal transactions, cost of cash.

So, I think the next steps are going to be, we now have a bank account in every home. We should move that to a bank account for every individual, the connecting of the Aadhar No. with the bank account. Going forward, connecting that bank account with GST and tax, so that more and more people have free flow of information. The ability of that account and the transaction history helping us to give loans to people in their homes, literally, credit and insurance, through the financial inclusion programme.

So, then it’s a multifarious benefit that will just keep multiplying and there are endless possibilities, I mean you can keep discussing this till the evening and we won’t be through…… of other benefits. You can give discount schemes, you can help people get connected with technology. It’s endless.

Q: I want to pick up on a comment that you just made when you talked about the DBT and the savings that the government is accrued on account of DBT, you said that that money is not frittered away. I want to ask you sir about the coal cess, and at this I ask you as the Coal Minister. The coal cess is now being used to compensate state governments for the loss of revenue on account of the GST. For a country like India, where in a state like Delhi we are struggling to be able to breathe clean air, should realistically the coal cess have not been used to do something about improving the air that we breathe, etc. as opposed to sending that money towards compensating states for possible revenue loss?

A: Absolutely right Shirine, that is where this coal cess started. It was a clean environment cess to promote renewable energy. But thanks to the honest government that this country finally has, we have been able to procure solar power at 1/3^rd the price that the previous government used to buy it.

We have been able to bring down wind power costs to 1/3^rd of what was being paid 4 years ago. And only this morning, at 4 o’clock, the only the second wind auction brought down wind power to Rs 2.64/65 paisa. We have been able to bring down LED prices, which the Prime Minister alluded to yesterday, from Rs 310 for a 7 W bulb to Rs 40 for a 9 W bulb. Now all of this is savings, is honesty in action. And that is why now we don’t need that coal cess to promote renewable energy. By itself, it is below grid parity. So, I think it is available resource, which is being put to good use and help GST roll-out.

After all, in GST roll-out, we are all familiar, states were very concerned what happens if the producing states lose out on revenue and the consuming states get an unfair advantage. So, this was an issue because of which the previous government could not bring GST, states did not trust that government. They had not even paid the CST dues, remember the Central Sales Tax dues? It was Mr Jaitley who provided 12,000 crores, brought in confidence – Vishwasniyta – I often talk about trust, that missing trust factor in government Mr Jaitley and Mr Modi brought back. And thanks to that GST is happening.

Now, this money is not required for renewable energy, we are using to another use, to introduce a common tax, make India one market. So, I think it’s a great use to that money and I am delighted that we are probably the only nation in the world, which is taxing carbon. Even the United States of America does not tax carbon; it encourages more and more use of carbon and pollutes the world and the atmosphere.

In fact, just for your information, the United States of America consumes more coal per capita 150 years ago than what India consumes today, and as of now they consume 8 times the amount of coal that India consumes in 2016-17. So, that’s the sensitivity and concern.

Of course, there are many other things one can speak about, but it is countries like India and leaders like Mr Modi who are truly passionate about climate change. So, I can assure you, what this government is doing to address this problem of pollution, I don’t think any government in the past in India certainly, and most governments in the world, have taken as many pro-active measures as we have done in the last 3.5 years.

Question and Answer (Audience)

Q: Hi, Sandeep Parikh from ……. I want to talk of regulation. I think 6 or 8 months back we had a major breach of banks where lot of banks and even money was stolen. So, I just want to highlight, you mentioned that we don’t need more regulations. I think we have had western countries which capped liabilities of individuals when there is a bank fraud. So, I can give you my example where I use credit cards a lot, I don’t use debit card at all, because I am scared of my bank getting wiped out and then me fighting with the bank for the next 20 years. So, maybe if I can have each of your comments on some kind of regulation which caps liability of consumers?

A: That’s not a regulation, that’s more in the nature of an insurance, we are basically providing an insurance, then one can always do that. I think, in India also we have some period in which, if at all, your credit card or debit card is lost, you are secured, you are protected from any losses.

I actually just saved some money like that. Somebody had put in $4,500 of transactions on my credit card, and in all parts of the world some hotel bills, hotel rooms were booked and we didn’t get any SMS alert. And, I got a full reversal of $4,500 right away.

Q: I am Sunil, Global Shaper from Ahmedabad. You just mentioned Mr Goyal that government is saving a lot of money by reducing a lot of prices across different …. So, what is it that government is going to do by collecting this lot of money into the accounts of government through, let’s say, GST you paying pro-active taxes, through demonetization you are getting all the cash within the bank accounts. You mentioned crude oil I guess, which is not transferred to us, because we are still paying 70-plus rupees per litre of petrol. So, what is it that government is going to do with a lot of money in their accounts?

A: I am delighted you asked this question. I am very very happy because this is something, again I am I think quite passionate about. During the roll-out of GST, I went around the country. I used to meet business persons, traders and it was in Vishakhapatnam I think that a person got up from the audience and he asked me, what is the incentive for me to pay taxes?

In some sense, the bottom line of your question is that. And, I said to him, that’s exactly what I am explaining. So, ultimately, tax is money coming into different governments, largely it goes to the state governments, centre gets its share. So, what’s the incentive for the person because you are feeling that you are being burdened with that tax, right? You just said crude oil, for example.

Now, we have all boarded the train, if I can take a punt on the new Ministry that I am handling. But we still have millions who haven’t boarded the train. You know, those 40 million families who don’t have power, their children are just like you and me. We got an opportunity. We got education. We got a good deal in life. That child over there, does he not have a right to electricity? Does he not have a desire to have opportunity for quality healthcare, quality education? Should not every government be concerned about taking an LPG cylinder into the homes of every family in this country, so that the women in that house cooking there does not inhale 400 cigarettes of smoke? Or would you rather that a person in Odisha has to carry a patient on his shoulders for miles altogether to reach the nearest doctor or hospital?

Now, certainly, one can argue that there is a lot to be desired, a lot of improvements, but ultimately it’s going to happen when all of us pitch in. It’s the 125 crore Indians that you are working for, but it’s the 10 crore privileged Indians who will all have to pitch in to make those 125 crores get a better deal of life. So, I think whenever you are paying your tax, just keep in mind that if you are going to evade that tax, or if you are not happy about paying that tax, there’s somebody out there who doesn’t have access to internet. There’s somebody whose child there, probably, is barefoot. There is somebody out there whose aged mother is not able to get quality healthcare. There are still maybe 200 million women in India who can’t afford sanitary pads.

That’s the story of India. Now, we all are pitching in to change that narrative. We are all working to see how we can use some of this money, as I said earlier, we are not squandering away coal blocks to anybody free of charge. We are running an auction process, which will bring the states $50 billion in the years to come, which will go to serve the poorest of the poor. We are not giving away spectrum to friends and family, and Members of Parliament of the government so that they can profiteer. We are not buying LED bulbs at Rs 310 so that some people in between make huge profits, or people remain deprived of $6.5 billion worth of saving every year, because they cannot afford LEDs at Rs 500-600. We are rather making it available for Rs 10 a month paid in instalments for 5-6-7 months, so that they can save far more than that every month in their electricity bills.

So, I think this is a government which is putting every single rupee that is collected in tax to fairly good use, to serve the poor of India. We believe in what Pandit Deendayal Upadhyay had said that the first right of a nation’s resources are for the poorest of the poor, the person at the bottom of the pyramid. And I think if that is not incentive enough to pay your taxes right, then certainly I have no better argument to that.

Q: Thank you very much, my name is Abhishek Aggarwal from Axion, and you touched upon on the digital inclusion, financial inclusion. My question is to you Mr Goyal in terms of what are we doing as a government to promote now the digital literacy, the financial literacy, specifically for the rural segment where this is now rolling forward. And what efforts are we putting on the financial institution to really make this as compulsory as they roll it out?

A: Excellent question, though on the second part I personally don’t believe in anything being made compulsory. My basic belief is that persuasion gives you far better results than compulsion on anything. When I was sent to model science classes in school, it was not a compulsion. You could go to church, you could go to the model science class, you could be a NCC cadet or whatever, you could go to a social science class. I chose to go to that model science class, and I am happy I did it. In fact, I sometimes regret why schools in India no more have that at least one lecture in a week trying to inculcate some value system, some ethics in our youngsters.

So, digital literacy or financial inclusion also in a way is something which will be more persuasion. We have about 230,000 common service centres run by the Ministry of IT under Mr Ravi Shankar Prasad, which is working towards taking financial literacy and educating the people in rural India particularly about different modes of transacting digitally, about banking, benefits of banking. So, different wings of the government are doing that, but I promise you nobody can do it better than all of you. Because, ultimately, government has processes, government has its own limitations. But what the private sector can do, what each one of the youngsters, after all, all of us, suppose you were to go on a Saturday evening in a train to one of the rural areas of India and train children in a village, maybe, wherever you come from, wouldn’t that be great? They would learn it far better from you than from a typical government servant.

So, I think if everybody, that’s what Prime Minister says, Janbhagidaari, if everybody takes it upon himself or herself that I have a role to be the change, as that young girl this morning said, Malvika, that if each one of us decides that I will be the change that I want to see in the other, I will make a difference to my country’s future. There is no limit, it’s boundless goodness in this country that we have.

Q: And, I think that is the perfect note to end this conversation on. There is consensus between Minister Goyal and Ajay Banga on a lot of the ideas that have been put on the table to try and make sure that India gathers more momentum on its path to digitalization with the exception of MDR. I think that is going to be a battle that the two of you will have…..

A: There is no disagreement at all. There should be a fair MDR and a reasonable cost to it. But it’s not necessary that the consumer or the merchant needs to bear that cost, there are million ways to recover that money in a more efficient, more smart way.

Panelist:  And my suggestion would be to get these two gentlemen back post lunch next year as well, to stir things up once again. Thank you very much Piyush Goyal, Ajay Banga for joining us here this afternoon.

Thank you.

Core sector growth rebounded to a five-month high in August while manufacturing activity expanded for the second month running in September, providing some cheer for an economy that saw growth touch a three-year low in the June quarter. The data would have been factored in by the monetary policy committee ahead of the Reserve Bank of India announcing the policy on Wednesday.

he core sector, comprising eight infrastructure segments, saw a 4.9% rise in output in August compared with 2.6% in July, data released by government showed. To be sure, the growth was driven largely by a sharp rise in coal and electricity output and wasn’t evenly spread. Crude oil, cement and fertiliser declined. The core sector grew 3.1% in August last year.

Increases in both output and new orders helped the manufacturing sector remain in the expansion zone with the Purchasing Managers’ Index (PMI) coming in at 51.2 in September, the same as August. A reading above 50 on the index indicates expansion.

The data will cheer the government following the criticism it faced over economic management after growth declined to 5.7% in the April-June period, triggering a downgrade in growth forecasts for FY18 to below 7% and calls for a fiscal stimulus.

“September data painted an encouraging picture as the sector continued to recover from the disruptions caused by the introduction of the goods and services tax (GST) in July,” said Aashna Dodhia, economist at IHS Markit and author of the PMI report.

The two sets of data point toward positive news on industrial production for August, said independent economists. Factory output, as measured by the Index of Industrial Production (IIP), rose just 1.2% in July. The core sector has a near 40% weight in IIP.

“Given the weight of around 40% in IIP, this number should translate into a higher number growth for the month with the destocking process getting reversed and could be in the range of 2-3%,” said Madan Sabnavis, chief economist at CARE Ratings. The improvement in core sector output as well as automobiles along with the PMI reading portend an uptick in industrial growth, said ICRA principal economist Aditi Nayar.

“Given the favourable base effect and the expected rebuilding of inventories prior to the festive season, we expect the IIP growth to improve in August relative to the initial estimate of 1.2% for July,” she said.

However, IHS Markit downgraded its real GDP growth for India to 6.8% in FY18 from 7.3% previously as the lingering effects of recent economic shocks continue to cast a shadow on growth, according to Dodhia. The government sees the slowdown as temporary, caused due to the combined effect of demonetisation and disruption owed to the launch of the goods and services tax (GST) on July 1.

Infra Grows The spurt in coal and power obscured drops in other segments. Despite August being a monsoon month, coal production was at a 33-month high of 15.3%, aided by a favourable base effect and less rain in the coal-producing states of central India.

Electricity output rose to a 16-month high of 10.3% in August. However, crude oil, fertiliser and cement production declined 1.6%, 0.7% and 1.3%, respectively, in August. Steel posted 3% growth.

Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/-output-of-eight-core-industries-rises-in-august/articleshow/60926080.cms

The government will “very soon” float a global tender to procure tracks for modernising the railways, which can create a million jobs within a year through various areas across its ecosystem, Union Minister Piyush Goyal said today.

He further said that safety will be priority for the railways and there would be no limit to funding it.

The comments of the new railways minister come after a spate of rail accidents in the last few month leading to loss of lives.

“I have diverted all available tracks to track renewal so that we can make the existing tracks safer. We are looking to go in for global procurement of rail tracks…this will help fast track the doubling of lines and new projects,” he told reporters at the India Economic Summit of the World Economic Forum (WEF).

Asked by when the global tender for tracks modernisation would be floated, Goyal said “very soon, it’s under process”.

“There is no limit to safety expenditure. Safety will be the priority of Indian railways. I have also categorised pedestrian foot-over bridges, platforms, entry and exit points as safety items.

“I have turned around 100 year old tradition which used to consider all of this as amenities,” he said.

He further said that monetising the real estate assets as well as fast tracking some of the existing investment plans would generate a lot of employment opportunities in the railways and the ecosystem around it.

“My own sense is, may not be directly jobs in railways, but certainly through engaging people and working in variety of areas across the ecosystem, not less than a million jobs can be created in less than 12 months — only railways and ecosystem around the railways,” Goyal said.

The government’s moving aggressively on the rail track and safety maintenance programme alone would create 2 lakh jobs, he added.

Besides, leveraging the amount of railway real estate by monetising those assets will help to generate resources without burdening passengers.

“If I look at the amount of investment in pipeline and activate that, it will create 2-2.5 lakh jobs in existing projects,” Goyal said.

He said India has huge investment potential but a change in mindset is required to transform the country.

Goyal said that with sectors like coal, power showing turnaround, it’s the turn of the railways now.

On the need for the country rebranding itself, he said the narrative of India is changing.

“Over the years India was well known for yoga, Ayurveda, cricket or Bollywood. Narrative is changing, Brand India is being built. India is being now recognised as a country which is honest in its dealings, where technology drives growth,” Goyal said.

Stating that megastructures cannot be built on a weak foundation, he said if India has to prepare itself for global challenges of tomorrow, there is a need to develop a framework that will ensure decades of prosperity.

“I think there is no better place in the world today to invest in, no larger market than the Indian market and there is no pole which is going to be more important than India,” he said.

Source:  http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/railways/rail-ecosystem-can-create-10-lakh-jobs-in-a-year-piyush-goyal/articleshow/60955305.cms

…coming up with, probably, the narrative for the future. So, in some sense, what you just spoke about is pretty much accurate. Narratives do tend to set agendas, tend to set the mood of the nation. And, in some sense, that’s exactly what India is going through – a changing narrative. Over the years, India was well known for its, maybe for its Yoga, Ayurveda, Cricket – the narrative is changing. Brand India is being built up across the world now. India is being now recognised as a country, which is honest in its dealings. India is now being recognised as a country where technology drives growth.

So, you have Sunil Bharti Mittal, first generation entrepreneur, started from the grassroots and created an international conglomerate. You have a nation, which is probably going to give Visa and MasterCard a run for their money with apps like BHIM app, which will make digital transactions so simple and so cheap, so easy that it may change the way the world does business.

The narrative in India is changing. And that narrative is changing on the back of a very simple fundamental truth that megastructures can’t be built on a weak foundation. And if India has to prepare itself for the global challenges of tomorrow, we will need to have a strong foundation, a framework from which we plan for not a year or two of growth, not a year or two or five years of prosperity, but decades of prosperity for the people of India.

And, clearly, with the kind of opportunity that exists in India, a billion people aspiring for a better quality of life, I think there is no better place in the world today to invest in, there is no larger market to service than the Indian market and there is no pole which is going to be more important than India around which the world economy can flourish, can grow. That’s I think the narrative I see going forward.

Q: Thank you, I love that notion of millennials as solution makers. That’s really great. Together, I hope my children grow up to become solution makers. And it does (Inaudible) something that we need to reconceptualise narratives about changing mindsets. We need to think of millenials differently. We need to think of productivity. We need to think of all these different issues at surface. I would like to have a second round of (Inaudible). What are the mindset challenges that you face and how can we actually use these narratives to change, because I think that’s at the root of this. How do we get people to change these narratives? And, maybe I can come back to you Minister with regard to that because that is I think part of your (Inaudible) self and your new portfolio?

A: We have a railway system that over a century ago was initiated for a different purpose, but today has become the lifeline of connectivity or transport in the country. As I am diving deeper into the system as it exists, I find that layers of bureaucracy have been built up over every single incident that must have happened in the last 100 years. So, you have one problem, to address that you add one more layer into the working, into the system. And over the years, you have created a system that is very slow to move. It takes ages to get anything happening.

And look at the multifarious losses to the Indian economy. It causes delays. It loses focus on costs. It loses focus on efficiency. And then, whatever investments we are making, it is not as effective as it should have been. But, I personally believe it’s not a very difficult thing to change that mindset. I had a similar challenge three years ago when India had almost reconciled that we will always be short of coal, we will always be short of power in this country. Renewable energy was being looked upon with fear of very high costs, and very little was being done to really change all that.

When this government came in, Prime Minister Modi gave me a few very simple nuggets, or I could call them commandments, very similar to what Sunil must be using or Deepali uses in her business, what Ajay must be grappling with on a day-to-day basis. Simple things like unless you monitor the work and hold people accountable, you are not going to get different outcomes. Very simple things like get as much transparent as you can and address the challenge of corruption. Very simple things like, go for economies of scale and implement fast and you are bound to bring down costs.

And when we brought in these concepts into the working of government, we found transformational results. Barely 15 months into my first job, we were able to declare that the country is power-surplus, the country has sufficient coal, and for 18 months in a row, I had to regulate production of coal in a country like India, which was for the last 50 years short of coal. For 18 months, I had to regulate production of coal, because there was not enough offtake of that product.

I think the same thing can happen in the railways. We have a million-plus people working in the railways. I think they are very sincere. I think they want to do a lot for the country. If we can provide that enabling environment, we can empower them. I have no doubt in my mind that once again that can become the vehicle, which will change the dynamics or the economic perspective in India.

I was assessing just about 3 or 4 days ago, in an engagement with the top leadership of the railways what the investment potential in the railways is, and what that could mean for jobs. And my own sense is that may not be directly in a job in the railways, which then gets reflected in numbers, but certainly, through engaging people to work in a variety of different areas across the system. Not less than a million jobs can be created in less than 12 months – only in the railways alone, and the ecosystem around the railways.

The track renewal programme, the safety related maintenance programme has such a large backlog that if I can aggressively go for that that alone will create over 200,000 jobs. When I look at the amount of real estate that the railways has in terms of stations, in terms of prime parcels of land and use that to leverage economic growth, also to leverage monetization of those assets, so that I don’t have to stress my railway passenger with more costs.

If I look at the amount of investments already in the pipeline and activate that going forward faster, cut down the bureaucratic layers, I think that alone can add another 200-250,000 jobs, existing projects. So, I think the potential is huge. It’s the mindset change, which will transform India. We have seen that happen in sector after sector, it’s the turn of the railways now.

And, look at the scale at which we have moved things. Yesterday, the Prime Minister was talking about simple thing like LED bulbs. It may sound very small, but our LED programme today is leading the revolution in the world. When I go to Europe, every European Power Minister tells me that thanks to India’s leadership in LEDs, they have been able to bring down their costs of converting to LED lighting.

The United States is far-far behind any effort to try and really combat climate change through affirmative action, and we have been able to see transformative results. Just the LED programme alone in the last 27 months, we have seen about 700 million LED bulbs being sold in the country – 700 million, with not a single cent of government subsidy or support. Now that itself is going to bring down our power consumption by about 11%. It’s going to bring down the carbon dioxide emission by about 80 million tonnes annually. It’s going to bring down consumer’s power bills by $6.5 billion annually, and it will save us about $20 billion of fresh investments. Maybe some of the participants of this may not like that idea, but it will save the country $20 billion of investments in more coal-powered thermal plants in the future.

So, I think transformative results are possible. It’s the self-confidence of the leadership and the vision that we provide to the nation that’s going to determine future success of this country.

Q: It was a very, Minister, you in a way summed up the challenges and the opportunities here. If we can get that mindset changed, it’s really not, these are not simple steps but if you can get the people around, you can accomplish great things. And, I would love to invite others on the panel to talk about really how that narrative, plus that change in mindset can lead to these actions that really have amazing results?

A: Can I just add a little bit? I think just to change the perspective from what Sunil just mentioned, we have had 3 major interactions under the auspices of NITI Aayog. We had Michael Porter coming in to talk to us, Bill Gates and the Deputy Prime Minister of Singapore, Tharman Shanmugaratnam. All three talked about the changing nature of jobs worldwide, and I think India is going through the same churn. What Sunil just spoke about companies bringing down their employment is a very good sign, in fact.

The fact that today the youth of tomorrow is not looking to be a job seeker alone; he wants to be a job creator. The country today in India also is seeing more and more young people wanting to become entrepreneurs. And, with the advent of 3D manufacturing, with artificial intelligence, with innovation playing central role, more and more people are getting engaged on their own and are looking to become franchisees, looking to become people who come up with ideas, people who want to be independent.

I will give you a simple example. Yesterday, I was assessing that I have about 2000 railway stations where I don’t have a booking office. These are very small remote stations which are called hauled stations. And, I often get request from Members of Parliament that they want a booking office. So, while talking to my people, we said if we open a booking office, we will probably give 4 people a job. We will have 3 and then a replacement on holidays. So, maybe the numbers on the balance sheet of the company or the corporation, the Indian Railways, will increase by 4.

But rather than that, I would allow a local entrepreneur from that village, or maybe a young girl from that village to take a small smart phone and generate a ticket out of her smart phone over there.

So, that will create a person, an entrepreneur who will be incentivised to make sure everybody who comes in there buys a ticket, because his commission is going to be what he earns. So, I am not stressing the balance sheet of the railways, which already is quite stressed. But at the same time I am creating transparency in the system, everybody who comes there gets an opportunity to pay for his ticket and not suffer any ignominy on the way. And I am creating a job which will never get reflected in any number. But, that’s the spirit of tomorrow.

Q: Now, I am going to be a bit unfair to close this session, because we have about 7 minutes. We have spoken about, and we have learnt and heard from you about inspiring narratives, but again, I said I will be a bit unfair, so I would love to each of you to just pick one word that you think forward, that would sum up your view of that narrative, and also the one issue that you would like to see some progress being made, a lot of progress being made, a transformation to occur as a result of this Summit. So, again …I am going to hold you to one word about what you think about the future, and one issue that you think this Summit can move the needle on?

A: I think – trust. The fact that we can trust people of India, and the people of India can trust us is very important. It brings self-confidence in the system. And, that also brings the Can-Do and Will-Do spirit into the nation. The fact that we can trust our own ability, the ability of our people, the ability of our nation and once we trust that, we can combat climate change, we can combat terrorism, we can combat any kind of pessimism in this system. So, I have full faith and hope that this country is a country where trust plays a very important role around the future.